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• Phil Payette

  

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  February 18, 2011 11:33:08 AM EST

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  I am not Mormon, nor will I ever be. But I do indeed have relatives that are. I have read the Book of Mormon in its entirety during my studies of various world religions. I will use this space to tell how this religion started, but I will not digress into its philosophy.

   

  The book was first published in 1830 by Joseph Smith in Palmyra, NY. "The Prophet" Joseph Smith was a minimally educated but deeply religious 17-year old farm boy who was praying when, in 1823, an angel appeared before him. Identified as Moroni, the last Nephite record keeper and guardian of the gold plates of Mormon. These metal plates contain the engraved records of a Hebrew family fleeing Jerusalem from the invading Babylonians, sailed across the Oceans and colonized the New World 2000 years before Columbus. The records continue with the accounts of the descendents with their wars and issues of faith.

   

  Moroni told Joseph the plates were buried in a stone box in a hillside (Hill Cumorah) near his home. Joseph found the plates but was forbidden to take them. Four years later Moroni allowed Joseph to take them and he then interpreted them with seer stones. When Joseph finished his manuscript, the angel took back the plates. Twelve people have written testamonies of seeing  the plates, and several others have written testamonies witnessing the translation process.

   

  Many believe that the Book of Mormon is a work of fiction due to lack of any archaeological evidence of the plates and the ancient civilizations described in the book. Even Native American history omits any part of a Hebrew origin in the Americas. But his followers cite his lack of education to be able to create such a long complex piece of writing. 

   

  Are Mormons Christian? The answer is yes. The Book of Mormon does not replace The Bible...it supplements it. Much as the Jewish Tanakh and the Christian Bible both prophecy the coming of the Savior, so does the Book of Mormon. And after the resurrection of Christ in Jerusalem, He appears briefly in the New World before the Nephites to continue his service on Earth. Both mainstream Christains and Mormons alike are awaiting the second coming whereas today's Jews are still awaiting the first (since they rejected Him last time).

   

  Hill Cumorah Visitor Center: http://hillcumorah.org/ 

   

  This post was edited by Phil Payette at February 18, 2011 11:33:08 AM EST
• Phil Payette

  

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  February 18, 2011 11:54:16 AM EST

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  http://www.itshaunted.com/gmap/506/hill-cumorah
• Phil Payette

  

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  February 22, 2011 8:45:15 AM EST

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  Me being a skeptical investigator, I don't believe everything I read. My mind must see evidence to support claims. As I stated above, there is no hard evidence to support the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. Believers are completely going on faith alone.
  
  By contrast, The Bible/Tanakh have plenty of real evidence to support many of the events documented (but not all). Just visit Israel and it stares at you right in the face. Yes, there are several other events in the Bible that require faith, but really thats what religion is all about. And for that matter, so is the paranormal.
• BadBoy Bill

  

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  February 22, 2011 3:00:55 PM EST

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  Religion is like the paranormal, There is no hard evidence to support either one. Both requires that you have faith in them, Any evidence can be easily deputed by skeptics. All regions are based on one Supreme Being. The creator of all, One being that controls us all. In order to believe in that religion you must belie in that being that is over that religion.You must have faith in that being or you are just wasting your time. Same goes for the paranormal. You got to have faith and believe in what you are doing or it is just a big waist of time.
  
  I have been to Israel and the only thing that stared me in the face was all the hungry children and people living in tents on the border that die everyday from hungry and the conditions that they have to live in. If Israel is the holly land then their creator isn't doing a lot to help his people. I have given my MREs to people there so that they could make it one more day. The Israel Army don't care about these people. They beat them back across the border with their guns and even shoot them. Then they proclaim to be Christians. But I guess its ok to shoot theses people because they are doing it in the name of God.
  
  We set around and talk about how bad the Germans were for slathering all the Jews there just because they were of a different race and religion. To me it was an unnecessary act by a mad man that had no real justification. I do understand what the Jews must have went though. The white man came to this country and did the same if not worse to the Native Americans here, They slathered whole tribes just to get the land so more white men could move in. But they did it in the name of God so I guess that makes it ok. Who am I to question the word of God. The same goes for the black people. The white man said God wanted them to have slaves so they went to Africa and slathered tribes of blacks and brought back the strong ones for slaves.But who are we to question that. If that is what God wanted then it must be ok.The way I understand it all throughout history if something was done in the name of God then it was ok and accepted by the people. If that is the type of God that people want me to follow then I am sorry I just don't want any part of it.
• Phil Payette

  

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  February 22, 2011 10:28:52 PM EST

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  Bill, my friend. People make their own rules and assumptions "in the name of God." God doesn't tell anyone to do these things. Not even the moslems commiting terrorist acts "in the name of Allah." They are doing these things on their own free will. Anyone who claims they can have a normal chat with God is either a saint or a lunatic. Don't base your views of God based on these things. Most people don't even have a clue what God really is.
  
  Anyway, my discussion isn't about God. Its about the people and the events recorded in the Bible and other holy books. No, going to Israel doesn't prove God exists; but the historical sites prove a lot of the history through archaeology. In the part about the Mormons I tried to make the point that there is absolutely zero amount of scientific proof, yet their church thrives and continues to grow.
  
  If I can make another comparison...the paranormal field also thrives and continues to grow, yet we haven't gained much ground at all in the scientific research of the paranormal.
  
  There are times that I wish people would stop trying so damn hard to prove the paranormal either exists or doesn't exist, because it still all boils down to faith. Whether one believes in it or not is only going to change with a personal experience, "evidence" be damned.
• BadBoy Bill

  

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  February 26, 2011 1:04:12 PM EST

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  I agree Phil. It all comes down to faith. You need faith in whatever you do. You have to believe in yourself.
  
  I to wish that people would stop trying to disprove religions and the paranormal. If one truly believes and has faith then nothing can change your mind. If a skeptic didn't believe in a religion and that god appeared before him, He would find a way to discredit the appearance, Mark it off as a hoax The same goes for the paranormal, If a spirit stepped out and slapped a skeptic up beside the head he still wouldn't believe it.
  
  I learned lg ago to never judge anyone by their color, race. religion, or where they are from or how much money they have. There are good and bad in all people from all walk's of life. I have also learned to never try and prove anything to anyone except to myself. As long as I believe something then that's all that matters to me.
  
  I don't know a lot about the Mormons but the few that I do know does have a lot of faith in what they believe.If Jesus Christ was truly the savorier of all men then why wouldn't he appear in the US.I don't think he would only appear to the people in the middle east.
  
  Most of the Christian in the world feels that the King James version of the Bible is the only one that should be used.There are many different translations of the Bible.I am not sure about this but I think that King James was the first person to have the scrolls translated and put into a book form. The way I understand it is that King James hired some men to translate the scrolls of the Bible and discard those that they felt didn't have a place in the Bible. He only wanted the scrolls that conformed to his belief added to the Bible. The discarded scrolls were later fount and called the dead sea scrolls.I myself don't think you can take any book and discard half of the chapters and still get a true meaning of the book. There many different translations of the scrolls that appear as different Christian Bibles and most say something different in all of them. With all the different translational who is to say which one is right. I really don't think it matters as long as the person reading their Bible has faith and believe in what they are reading.
  
  Phil do respectfully disagree with this statement.((( Anyone who claims they can have a normal chat with God is either a saint or a lunatic.)))) Many of our great forefathers made this claim. George Washing and Tomas Jefferson said that God ordered them to take up arms against the British. It was the will of God that this country should be free. President Lincoln also stated ((( Against my will God has ordered me to declare war on the southern states so this country can remain strong and united.))) I do believe that some of e people that say these things are only doing what they want. Like John Wilks Booth when asked why he shot the president stated that it was an order of God. or the solder that went against direct orders to take Booth alive said God ordered him to kill Booth. Then there is President Jackson who said God ordered him to slaughter the Native Americans and drive them out west along the Trail of Tears. Then after Mexico refused to sell Texas and the southwest states said that God ordered him to declare war on Mexico and take the land. The list goes on and on even in today's world. But I really do believe that some that claim this are true in their beliefs and maybe God really did speak to them Like Martian Luther King Jr. If the long run it's not up to me to judge these men. If there is a God then I am sure that he will remember who he spoke to and who he didn't and its his judgment that will count.and if there is no God then it won't really matter anyway.